Putting dreaming and future together… HUh?

As I was reflecting and thinking about the conversations past (in the last few posts and the conversation that I was probably a part of as we have discussed about the different pockets of church movements), I can’t help but begin to dream about church. I was very encouraged too last nite as I was discussing with a good friend and hearing his passion for the church and his hopes and dreams for the church. It is true we haven’t been really dreaming much in this century.

So putting the future in our dreaming… I wonder what Chinese churches would be like when it begins to break out of its mode of fear?
I wonder what happens when traditions intersects with new ideologies and a really different culture?
I wonder when the balancing act is not a top heavy Chinese mother church but also a thriving English 2nd, 3rd, 4th… generation ministries.
I wonder what it would be like for the children of 1st gen (2nd gen beyond) working along side their parents would look like?
I wonder how mentorship can work between 1st gens and 2nd gens? Reverse mentoring? Traditional mentoring? theres so much we can learn from each other!
I wonder how awesome it is when we break down our swords of disunity and have plowshires of unity between the churches?
I wonder how beautiful the sounds of the united prayers of Chinese churches would be… crying out to God and seeking His will together?
I wonder how crazy it would be when people see the Chinese people of Toronto and they see Christ in their words, in their thoughts, in their actions, in the way we voice unity…?

I agree that there is hope in the chinese churches! When dreaming and future comes together it requires something that requires so much discernment, courage, hope, strength… this something is…

“so what now?”

Future… What Future?

First of all… Just kidding!  haha!

After a good chat with a few pastor friends who are serving in their specific chinese churches, some different views about the future was discussed.

I, myself have seen my home church go through transition of my senior pastor retire and we all assumed the church would hire an english pastor or next gen chinese pastor at least… but Lo and Behold, they just chose a slightly younger version of my senior pastor to take his place who had probably MORE “chinese church” values than his predecessor.

Another possibility that was discussed was the actual situation in the US where some chinese churches are practically in their 5th-6th generation in America, and now the ABC (american born chinese) pastors are learning how to ministering to the immigrant chinese population coming in.  It’s become FULL CIRCLE!

Anyways, I’m not too sure the chinese church is that big on “passing on the torch” to the next gen.  Maybe because it is a RARITY in our area that that situation has even occured!  I don’t want to be pessimistic on this topic, but maybe it’ll look more like how the KOREAN church (in general) has approached this situation…  let the english congregation gain autonomy and support their ministry financially.  I’m not saying this in a condescending way, because I think it takes SO MUCH humility to do that.  I’m also unsure if chinese churches would ever take this approach because of their loyalty to the family/blood unit (all different language speaking congregations in the chinese church).

In terms of a “mutli-cultural future” for the future chinese-church…  my immediate observations simply reveal that those inter-racial couples tend to feel more comfortable moreso in a westernized church setting than a chinese church setting.  I’ve just seen that people flock more towards their own culturally “comfortable” setting, whether monocultural couples or multi-cultural couples… they join the church with people of the same “mindset”.  The exception, of course, is the missional couples who stress their missional lifestyle over simply attendance.

Well, enough of this rambling and ranting.  I guess in conclusion, all I’m saying is that I have hope that God will work through the Chinese church in some fashion… hopefully realizing that it is the beautiful bride of Christ even with its warts and all  I also hope there more and more chinese people of all generation want to bridge their relational and cultural gaps for the sake of the gospel and kingdom of God.

Future of the Chinese Church?

In a good conversation with a friend the other day, we were discussing about the future of the church; particularly the Chinese churches. We were looking at the next 5-10 years and seeing where the churches would be like because chances are some of the lead and senior pastors maybe stepping down; retiring etc. So logics may dictate that the next wave of lead pastors maybe the 2nd Gen Chinese or at least the 2 Gen Chinese pastors would be taking on roles such as senior pastors. The question was how the church would look like and whether or not the intention was to pass on the mega churches onto the 2 Gen’s to tend and lead?
I wonder what the churches would look like in the next 5-10 years particularly in the Toronto context. I forsee the growth of a ever increasing 2nd Generation Chinese with another increasing growth of 3rd Generation Chinese. With the multicultural flavour that is in Toronto and probably a higher increase in cross cultural marriage, how would that affect the Chinese churches? Would the English ministry look completely different? And how would we be ready for the changes that is to come?

Re: concerning dreaming

Good question about why our churches don’t dream anymore… maybe because we are stuck in a certain perspective or in a certain way of church? Maybe church is just good enough the way it is and that’s why we need no more to dream? Maybe because it is just that comfortable so we shuld stop dreaming because it will just rock the boat?
I wonder if it also has to do with the fear of dreaming where people will look at you differently and think of you as an alien whose thoughts are completely absurd? Maybe they have been hurt so much that dreaming would just bring back those hurting moments?

I was reading Driscoll’s blog and he wrote about the lifecycle of the church… found it very interesting
He describe the stages of a church through: gestation, birth, infancy, adolescence, maturity, parenting, grandparenting, death and resurrection. Although I am still wrestling with the understanding of death of a church (it is an interesting and sometimes really real reality!) but I think maybe part of the reason why we do not dream anymore is because when we have arrived at one of these stages then we are content and it just feels good! Maybe we just need to be shakened before we can begin to dream again?

I have always been a dreamer – sometimes way too much dreams (haha) but as a dreamer I have learn one thing that if dreams remain as a dream it would never have any impact or changes.
Martin Luther King Jr…. “I have a dream…” spoken with such emphatic passion that moved a nation… may our dreams too resound the same passion and the desire for His Kingdom to Come!

Don’t know how to dream anymore…

Is it just me?  or has church ministry sucked up all the “dreaming” out of me?  I want to dream again what the church is about again.  I want to leave the bad attitude I have behind and work towards a kingdom focus again… but why is it so hard?

A recent friend of my wife became a Christian recently after MANY years and he also went to urbana which instilled a BIG passion to make God known to the people around him.  He’s joined a church and is starting to get acclimated to “church life”…. but…  after confession to my wife that he has seen the symptoms of “sunday christians”.  No passion, no difference in their lives than anybody else.  He wonders why everybody in his church seems to just go through the motions…  even in his short time there.

Maybe he hasn’t been there long enough, maybe he’s just naive… but I gotta say… it’s not just his church.

How can we dream again?  Am I just tired of dreaming of church where we ARE the living body of Christ… or is dreaming not enough?…

First Response to Essential Church

I will comment a little bit on what has been written about the Essential Church; unfortunately I have not read the book yet but hopefully I will get a chance to read it in the New Year. Who knows? Maybe I will even pick it up at Urbana?
Anyways as I was reading through the blog, I was really intrigued by the ideas of “why young adults STAY in the church?”
And I guess this is the premise of Thom Rainer’s book; the Essential Church. That young adults needs to be able to see the essentiality of church and the biblical fellowship. The second point of the essentiality is very true of this generation where often “being spiritual” is sufficient. The view of being a closet Christian is quite sufficient for many where as being connected is seen as the “old way” of doing church. But I wonder about the essentiality of the church today has more to do with how authentic and true the churches are today. Are we non-essentials because we have church in the wrong way? As I reflect on my readings on Acts I am reminded how the early church was just being Church and people are coming to them and finding them “essential” because it is REAL in their lives. I wonder if essentiality has to do with authenticity? One cannot exist without the other. I wonder why young adults are not staying in churches is because there lacks authenticity in the ministry and the body of the church? And it is because of the lack of substance that church is no longer essential?

Due to the brievity of time (because I’m leaving for Urbana shortly) I will comment on the first point of simplicity
Too much programming! Too much programming! Too much programming!
Amen to that! Sometimes church has been reduced to popular programming. Who has the largest ZEST gets the biggest draws! I think in some ways that this is a product of a generation of seeker sensitive. I am not here to say bad things about seeker sensitive churches because I know that over the years and even now they are doing some amazing things. But with oodles of programming it lacks the substance that is required.
I would add to this not only structure but visioning.  With a clear cut and clean and simple vision lends way to a structure that engages with the vision and the direction of the church. I think the structure surrounds the vision. Maybe that is the plight that many Chinese churches today struggle with? We are so stuck on what to do that we have befallen on programming. Stay tune for the next big thing, as oppose to living a life towards something. I imagine the scene of wander through the desert for the sake of wandering and wandering through the desert because we know there is a promise land. I have often found the interest in the Old Testament during the years of wandering how this MASSAGE group of people are able to move from one place to another; especially if you looked at the movement of the Tabernacle, how each intricate part is needed. Yet the reason why they were able to move around for forty years was because there was a purpose, they were trying to get to the promised land.

Maybe as we are considering planning the church that we need time to pray and ask God for the clarity of the promised land and also how we can allocate the structure that is needed?

What is… Essential Church?

Just to get the ball rolling (no intro needed!), I’m curious to know what’s “essential” about church in general?  In Thom Rainer’s new book, “Essential Church”, it looks up statistics, interviews many young people, why is there such a big drop out?  On the positive side of things, he also asks, what is keeping young people at their churches as well, and for him, the reason is because they see their church is ESSENTIAL in their lives.

Here’s some of the introduction points he throws out:

The Top Ten Reasons given among church dropouts?
1. Simply wanted a break from church.
2. Church members seemed judgemental or hypocritical.
3. Moved to college and stopped attending church.
4. Work responsibilities prevented from attending.
5. Moved too far away from the church to continue attending.
6. Became too busy though still wanted to attend.
7. Didn’t feel connected to the people in my church.
8. Disagreed with the church’s stance on political or social issues.
9. Chose to spend more time with friends outside the church.
10. Was only going to church to please others.

From non-essential to ESSENTIAL church

Why do young adults STAY in the church?

- if they see church as essential to their lives

- a biblical fellowship that is essential to their lives

4 Major Components of Essential Church

1. Simplify

- Too many churches have too many activities that aren’t coherent and don’t have a purpose

- Get the structure right

2. Deepen

- Move congregants to deepen their knowledge of God and biblical truths

- Get the content right

3. Expect

Church has high expectations of its members

- when expectations are low, results are low

- Get the attitude right

4. Multiply

- Committed to helping their members multiply spiritually

- Get the action right

If I were to plant a church (or perhaps a service… haha), are these the essentials?  Is this a good general framework to start from?  Is something missing or needs to be considered more?